Hi Aram,
Many thanks for your comments. These are some really poignant reads. It seems clear Ms Wallach saw Israelis treat Palestinians very poorly! And regarding terrorism vs freedom fighting, I think I understand your point: the British saw George Washington as a traitor and many South Africans referred to Nelson Mandela as a terrorist.
Several questions come to mind from those reads! The most challenging for me is: If Hamas were to have the opportunity to govern the region, do you think they would behave more kindly towards the Jewish inhabitants than Ms. Wallach described the Israeli State behaving towards the Palestinians? Do you think Hamas would govern with forgiveness and intent to nation-build as Nelson Mandela did?
Most of the data points I have seen (e.g. Hamas charter, history of bus bombings and rocket attacks, October 7 and subsequent commentary) paint a more violent image of the organization.
All the Best,
Justin
> On Aug 4, 2025, at 3:23 PM, Aram James
wrote:
>
> Justin,
>
> Last one for the day:
>
> From my very brave anti-Zionist dear friend
> Donna Wallach.
>
> Avram
>
> On Mon, Aug 4, 2025 at 12:58 PM Aram James > wrote:
>> Hey Justin,
>>
>> Here is a bit more
>> Information on the
>> Genocide.
>>
>> Avram
>> Amnesty International investigation concludes Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza
>> Amnesty International’s research has found sufficient basis to conclude that Israel has committed and is continuing to commit genocide against Palestinians in the occupied Gaza Strip, the organization said in a landmark new report published today.
>>
>> The report, ‘You Feel Like You Are Subhuman’: Israel’s Genocide Against Palestinians in Gaza , documents how, during its military offensive launched in the wake of the deadly Hamas-led attacks in southern Israel on 7 October 2023, Israel has unleashed hell and destruction on Palestinians in Gaza brazenly, continuously and with total impunity.
>>
>> “Amnesty International’s report demonstrates that Israel has carried out acts prohibited under the Genocide Convention, with the specific intent to destroy Palestinians in Gaza. These acts include killings, causing serious bodily or mental harm and deliberately inflicting on Palestinians in Gaza conditions of life calculated to bring about their physical destruction. Month after month, Israel has treated Palestinians in Gaza as a subhuman group unworthy of human rights and dignity, demonstrating its intent to physically destroy them,” said Agnès Callamard, Secretary General of Amnesty International.
>>
>> “Our damning findings must serve as a wake-up call to the international community: this is genocide. It must stop now.
>>
>> “States that continue to transfer arms to Israel at this time must know they are violating their obligation to prevent genocide and are at risk of becoming complicit in genocide. All states with influence over Israel, particularly key arms suppliers like the USA and Germany, but also other EU member states, the UK and others, must act now to bring Israel’s atrocities against Palestinians in Gaza to an immediate end.”
>>
>> Over the past two months the crisis has grown particularly acute in the North Gaza governorate, where a besieged population is facing starvation, displacement and annihilation amid relentless bombardment and suffocating restrictions on life-saving humanitarian aid.
>>
>> “Our research reveals that, for months, Israel has persisted in committing genocidal acts, fully aware of the irreparable harm it was inflicting on Palestinians in Gaza. It continued to do so in defiance of countless warnings about the catastrophic humanitarian situation and of legally binding decisions from the International Court of Justice (ICJ) ordering Israel to take immediate measures to enable the provision of humanitarian assistance to civilians in Gaza,” said Agnès Callamard.
>>
>> “Israel has repeatedly argued that its actions in Gaza are lawful and can be justified by its military goal to eradicate Hamas. But genocidal intent can co-exist alongside military goals and does not need to be Israel’s sole intent.”
>>
>> Amnesty International examined Israel’s acts in Gaza closely and in their totality, taking into account their recurrence and simultaneous occurrence, and both their immediate impact and their cumulative and mutually reinforcing consequences. The organization considered the scale and severity of the casualties and destruction over time. It also analysed public statements by officials, finding that prohibited acts were often announced or called for in the first place by high-level officials in charge of the war efforts.
>>
>> “Taking into account the pre-existing context of dispossession, apartheid and unlawful military occupation in which these acts have been committed, we could find only one reasonable conclusion: Israel’s intent is the physical destruction of Palestinians in Gaza, whether in parallel with, or as a means to achieve, its military goal of destroying Hamas,” said Agnès Callamard.
>>
>> “The atrocity crimes committed on 7 October 2023 by Hamas and other armed groups against Israelis and victims of other nationalities, including deliberate mass killings and hostage-taking, can never justify Israel’s genocide against Palestinians in Gaza.”
>>
>> International jurisprudence recognizes that the perpetrator does not need to succeed in their attempts to destroy the protected group, either in whole or in part, for genocide to have been committed. The commission of prohibited acts with the intent to destroy the group, as such, is sufficient.
>>
>> Amnesty International’s report examines in detail Israel’s violations in Gaza over nine months between 7 October 2023 and early July 2024. The organization interviewed 212 people, including Palestinian victims and witnesses, local authorities in Gaza, healthcare workers, conducted fieldwork and analysed an extensive range of visual and digital evidence, including satellite imagery. It also analysed statements by senior Israeli government and military officials, and official Israeli bodies. On multiple occasions, the organization shared its findings with the Israeli authorities but had received no substantive response at the time of publication.
>>
>> Unprecedented scale and magnitude
>>
>> Israel’s actions following Hamas’s deadly attacks on 7 October 2023 have brought Gaza’s population to the brink of collapse. Its brutal military offensive had killed more than 42,000 Palestinians, including over 13,300 children, and injured over 97,000 more, by 7 October 2024, many of them in direct or deliberately indiscriminate attacks, often wiping out entire multigenerational families. It has caused unprecedented destruction, which experts say occurred at a level and speed not seen in any other conflict in the 21st century, levelling entire cities and destroying critical infrastructure, agricultural land and cultural and religious sites. It thereby rendered large swathes of Gaza uninhabitable.
>>
>> Mohammed, who fled with his family from Gaza City to Rafah in March 2024 and was displaced again in May 2024, described their struggle to survive in horrifying conditions:
>>
>> “Here in Deir al-Balah, it’s like an apocalypse… You have to protect your children from insects, from the heat, and there is no clean water, no toilets, all while the bombing never stops. You feel like you are subhuman here.”
>>
>> Israel imposed conditions of life in Gaza that created a deadly mixture of malnutrition, hunger and diseases, and exposed Palestinians to a slow, calculated death. Israel also subjected hundreds of Palestinians from Gaza to incommunicado detention, torture and other ill-treatment.
>>
>> Viewed in isolation, some of the acts investigated by Amnesty International constitute serious violations of international humanitarian law or international human rights law. But in looking at the broader picture of Israel’s military campaign and the cumulative impact of its policies and acts, genocidal intent is the only reasonable conclusion.
>>
>> Intent to destroy
>>
>> To establish Israel’s specific intent to physically destroy Palestinians in Gaza, as such, Amnesty International analysed the overall pattern of Israel’s conduct in Gaza, reviewed dehumanizing and genocidal statements by Israeli government and military officials, particularly those at the highest levels, and considered the context of Israel’s system of apartheid, its inhumane blockade of Gaza and the unlawful 57-year-old military occupation of the Palestinian territory.
>>
>> Before reaching its conclusion, Amnesty International examined Israel’s claims that its military lawfully targeted Hamas and other armed groups throughout Gaza, and that the resulting unprecedented destruction and denial of aid were the outcome of unlawful conduct by Hamas and other armed groups, such as locating fighters among the civilian population or the diversion of aid. The organization concluded these claims are not credible. The presence of Hamas fighters near or within a densely populated area does not absolve Israel from its obligations to take all feasible precautions to spare civilians and avoid indiscriminate or disproportionate attacks. Its research found Israel repeatedly failed to do so, committing multiple crimes under international law for which there can be no justification based on Hamas’s actions. Amnesty International also found no evidence that the diversion of aid could explain Israel’s extreme and deliberate restrictions on life-saving humanitarian aid.
>>
>> In its analysis, the organization also considered alternative arguments such as ones that Israel was acting recklessly or that it simply wanted to destroy Hamas and did not care if it needed to destroy Palestinians in the process, demonstrating a callous disregard for their lives rather than genocidal intent.
>>
>> Our damning findings must serve as a wake-up call to the international community: this is genocide. It must stop now.
>> Agnès Callamard, Amnesty International
>> However, regardless of whether Israel sees the destruction of Palestinians as instrumental to destroying Hamas or as an acceptable by-product of this goal, this view of Palestinians as disposable and not worthy of consideration is in itself evidence of genocidal intent.
>>
>> Many of the unlawful acts documented by Amnesty International were preceded by officials urging their implementation. The organization reviewed 102 statements that were issued by Israeli government and military officials and others between 7 October 2023 and 30 June 2024 and dehumanized Palestinians, called for or justified genocidal acts or other crimes against them.
>>
>> Of these, Amnesty International identified 22 statements made by senior officials in charge of managing the offensive that appeared to call for, or justify, genocidal acts, providing direct evidence of genocidal intent. This language was frequently replicated, including by Israeli soldiers on the ground, as evidenced by audiovisual content verified by Amnesty International showing soldiers making calls to “erase” Gaza or to make it uninhabitable, and celebrating the destruction of Palestinian homes, mosques, schools and universities.
>>
>> Killing and causing serious bodily or mental harm
>>
>> Amnesty International documented the genocidal acts of killing and causing serious mental and bodily harm to Palestinians in Gaza by reviewing the results of investigations it conducted into 15 air strikes between 7 October 2023 and 20 April 2024 that killed at least 334 civilians, including 141 children, and wounded hundreds of others. Amnesty International found no evidence that any of these strikes were directed at a military objective.
>>
>> In one illustrative case, on 20 April 2024, an Israeli air strike destroyed the Abdelal family house in the Al-Jneinah neighbourhood in eastern Rafah, killing three generations of Palestinians, including 16 children, while they were sleeping.
>>
>> While these represent just a fraction of Israel’s aerial attacks, they are indicative of a broader pattern of repeated direct attacks on civilians and civilian objects or deliberately indiscriminate attacks. The attacks were also conducted in ways designed to cause a very high number of fatalities and injuries among the civilian population.
>>
>> Inflicting conditions of life calculated to bring about physical destruction
>>
>> The report documents how Israel deliberately inflicted conditions of life on Palestinians in Gaza intended to lead, over time, to their destruction. These conditions were imposed through three simultaneous patterns that repeatedly compounded the effect of each other’s devastating impacts: damage to and destruction of life-sustaining infrastructure and other objects indispensable to the survival of the civilian population; the repeated use of sweeping, arbitrary and confusing mass “evacuation” orders to forcibly displace almost all of Gaza’s population; and the denial and obstruction of the delivery of essential services, humanitarian assistance and other life-saving supplies into and within Gaza.
>>
>> After 7 October 2023, Israel imposed a total siege on Gaza cutting off electricity, water and fuel. In the nine months reviewed for this report, Israel maintained a suffocating, unlawful blockade, tightly controlled access to energy sources, failed to facilitate meaningful humanitarian access within Gaza, and obstructed the import and delivery of life-saving goods and humanitarian aid, particularly to areas north of Wadi Gaza. They thereby exacerbated an already existing humanitarian crisis. This, combined with the extensive damage to Gaza’s homes, hospitals, water and sanitation facilities and agricultural land, and mass forced displacement, caused catastrophic levels of hunger and led to the spread of diseases at alarming rates. The impact was especially harsh on young children and pregnant or breastfeeding women, with anticipated long-term consequences for their health.
>>
>> The international community’s seismic, shameful failure for over a year to press Israel to end its atrocities in Gaza, by first delaying calls for a ceasefire and then continuing arms transfers, is and will remain a stain on our collective conscience.
>> Agnès Callamard, Amnesty International
>> Time and again, Israel had the chance to improve the humanitarian situation in Gaza, yet for over a year it has repeatedly refused to take steps blatantly within its power to do so, such as opening sufficient access points to Gaza or lifting tight restrictions on what could enter the Strip or their obstruction of aid deliveries within Gaza while the situation has grown progressively worse.
>>
>> Through its repeated “evacuation” orders Israel displaced nearly 1.9 million Palestinians – 90% of Gaza’s population – into ever-shrinking, unsafe pockets of land under inhumane conditions, some of them up to 10 times. These multiple waves of forced displacement left many jobless and deeply traumatized, especially since some 70% of Gaza’s residents are refugees or descendants of refugees whose towns and villages were ethnically cleansed by Israel during the 1948 Nakba.
>>
>> Despite conditions quickly becoming unfit for human life, Israeli authorities refused to consider measures that would have protected displaced civilians and ensured their basic needs were met, showing that their actions were deliberate.
>>
>> They refused to allow those displaced to return to their homes in northern Gaza or relocate temporarily to other parts of the Occupied Palestinian Territory or Israel, continuing to deny many Palestinians their right to return under international law to areas they were displaced from in 1948 . They did so knowing that there was nowhere safe for Palestinians in Gaza to flee to.
>>
>> Accountability for genocide
>>
>> “The international community’s seismic, shameful failure for over a year to press Israel to end its atrocities in Gaza, by first delaying calls for a ceasefire and then continuing arms transfers, is and will remain a stain on our collective conscience,” said Agnès Callamard.
>>
>> “Governments must stop pretending they are powerless to end this genocide, which was enabled by decades of impunity for Israel’s violations of international law. States need to move beyond mere expressions of regret or dismay and take strong and sustained international action, however uncomfortable a finding of genocide may be for some of Israel’s allies.
>>
>> “The International Criminal Court’s (ICC) arrest warrants for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and former Defense Minister Yoav Gallant for war crimes and crimes against humanity issued last month offer real hope of long-overdue justice for victims. States must demonstrate their respect for the court’s decision and for universal international law principles by arresting and handing over those wanted by the ICC.
>>
>> “We are calling on the Office of the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court (ICC) to urgently consider adding genocide to the list of crimes it is investigating and for all states to use every legal avenue to bring perpetrators to justice. No one should be allowed to commit genocide and remain unpunished.”
>>
>> Amnesty International is also calling for all civilian hostages to be released unconditionally and for Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups responsible for the crimes committed on 7 October to be held to account.
>>
>> The organization is also calling for the UN Security Council to impose targeted sanctions against Israeli and Hamas officials most implicated in crimes under international law.
>>
>> Background
>>
>> On 7 October 2023 Hamas and other armed groups indiscriminately fired rockets into southern Israel and carried out deliberate mass killings and hostage-taking there , killing 1,200 people, including over 800 civilians, and abducted 223 civilians and captured 27 soldiers. The crimes perpetrated by Hamas and other armed groups during this attack will be the focus of a forthcoming Amnesty International report.
>>
>> Since October 2023, Amnesty International has conducted in-depth investigations into the multiple violations and crimes under international law committed by Israeli forces, including direct attacks on civilians and civilian objects and deliberately indiscriminate attacks killing hundreds of civilians, as well as other unlawful attacks on and collective punishment of the civilian population. The organization has called on the Office of the ICC Prosecutor to expedite its investigation into the situation in the State of Palestine and is campaigning for an immediate ceasefire.
>>
>> For the Hebrew translation of this press release, click here.
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 4, 2025 at 12:29 PM Martin Wasserman > wrote:
>>> Hi Justin,
>>>
>>> Israel declaring a unilateral cease-fire and leaving Hamas in power would be a potential long-term disaster not only for Israel, but for the entire civilized world. Hamas is just one branch of a larger movement called the Muslim Brotherhood, which exists in various forms in many different countries, including the US and most of Europe, and whose stated goal is Islamic world domination. Hamas couldnt care less about the Gazans. In fact, they see dead and starving Gazans as beneficial to their cause, because it undermines international support for Israel, which they regard as one of the chief impediments to their goal of world domination.
>>>
>>> The MB knows it doesnt have the military strength to conquer the world right now, so theyre very sharp-eyed for psychological weaknesses on the part of their enemies. For Israel to allow Hamas to survive because of humanitarian concern for Gazan civilians would be seen as a critical psychological weakness which could be further exploited, not only of Israel, but also of Western civilization itself which is pressuring Israel in this regard. This would greatly embolden the MB worldwide and add to their confidence that they’re on the right path.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Martin Wasserman
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Aug 4, 2025, at 9:14 AM, Justin Zalkin > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello —
>>>>
>>>> I see some exceptionally bright people on this thread who have differing perspectives. For the folks who think Israel should immediately declare a ceasefire, what are your perspectives on Hamas? And what do you anticipate Hamas would most likely do with a ceasefire period?
>>>>
>>>> Hopefully everyone views famine among Gazans as horrible (regardless of who is to blame). My fear is that a cessation of hostilities that leaves Hamas governing would not lead to a good long term outcome for Gazans (or Israelis). I am curious what others who have studied the conflict in more detail think would most likely happen if Hamas were to continue governing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> All the Best,
>>>> Justin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 1, 2025, at 10:56 AM, Aram James > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: Your Stand on the Ceasefire
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Henry,
>>>>>
>>>>> You were truly the only candidate for the Palo Alto City Council in 2024, out of nine total candidates, who had the courage to unequivocally call for a ceasefire. I attended the council meeting that night and remember your speech very well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Avram “ One State Solution” Finkelstein
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Aug 1, 2025 at 10:31 AM, Henry Etzkowitz > wrote:
>>>>>> Marty
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marty,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Express away but the killing and starvation policy must stop, under UN armed supervision, of course. Who is to be the Ike who said, I will go to Korea during he 1952 election campaign, achieved a cease fire, that holds to this day, despite lack of a formal peace treaty.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Henry
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > On Aug 1, 2025, at 10:19 AM, Martin Wasserman > wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Henry,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > One of my objections to “ceasefire now” is that it places all of the onus on Israel and demands nothing of Hamas, and gives Hamas breathing space to regroup and rearm so they can continue their policy of killing Jews.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Marty
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> On Aug 1, 2025, at 10:01 AM, Henry Etzkowitz > wrote:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Dear Marty
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> I have expressed my agreement in heron to Council on their general policy of excluding foreign policy issues However, like the attorney for the holocaust victim who successfully asked the US Supreme for a narrow exception to the statute of limitations, I argued to Council that there are certain issues that it behooves as as Palo Alto citizens to take a stand: Gaza cease fire now, is one! See council video of several months ago for my full statement.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Best,
>>>>>> >> Hillel
>>>>>> >>> On Aug 1, 2025, at 9:43 AM, Martin Wasserman > wrote:
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Theres no legitimate reason for city government to weigh in on foreign policy issues, especially in highly volatile areas like the Middle East. Such controversial resolutions change nothing in the Middle East and only promote conflict at home. Unless of course the goal is precisely to create conflict at home.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Martin Wasserman
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>> On Aug 1, 2025, at 2:14 AM, Henry Etzkowitz > wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Ps
>>>>>> >>>> Upon reflection, accept your critique: cease fire requires repetition , will include in writings this topic until achieved
>>>>>> >>>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.triplehelix.net&c=E,1,kuh63ydSisluCEHQ2Rpq0IWpa7__0lQF9A0YBEG1vvwQPzmT-A7wYO8VoFjbrSARDFuyTIiHobnY7oCwI8QsdG9RRWReYqX0MAIQvMXY45Jq&typo=1
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>> On Jul 31, 2025, at 11:45 PM, Roberta Ahlquist > wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>> Ok!🌷🦋
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 31, 2025, at 10:20 PM, Henry Etzkowitz > wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> Agree with cease fire, and permanent treaty above and beyond. Aram, who was present, can assure you that I requested each council member individually and publicly to commit Palo Alto to call for cease fire. Video supposed to be available at city website.
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> Best
>>>>>> >>>>>> Henry
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jul 31, 2025, at 8:49 PM, Roberta Ahlquist > wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes- and how about a ceasefire? Less abstract, more concrete...?🐸🦋
>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jul 31, 2025, at 1:08 PM, Henry Etzkowitz > wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Somewhere in Israel’s Governmental bureaucracy under an innocuous title, a “collective Eichmann” is at work meticulously designing the “crime of the new century” the systematic destruction the civil institutional environment of universities, businesses, and housing, with the intent and objective of atomizing the citizens of GAZA Palestine into a controllable mass. Attendant nutrition deprivation is an overlay on institutional and organizational deprivation, conducted in Mediterranean sunlight and international, if not Israeli, full media gaze. Rather than the inside pages of the New York Times where v Germany’s 20th century holocaust was relegated, this rolling, escalating genocide is on the front pages of the newspaper of record where all news that fits is published, sometimes ironically overshadowed by food recipes in the Internet Edition. The international community, led by Europe where the Holocaust was originated, collaborated, condoned and only sometimes resisted in the last century, must mitigate its indelible moral stain by heading off the Netenyahu regime’s scheme. Only a Jewish state founded on the ashes of the holocaust could have been given such leeway, not to forget Pol Pot’s Cambodia. Who will be the future Hannah Arendt to chronicle the ubiquity of evil?
>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sincerely
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Henry Etzkowitz
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Distinguished Fellow
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> University of London, Birkbeck College, Centre for Innovation Management Research
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Co-founder, Neighbors for Environmental and Social Justice, 644 Menlo Avenue, Menlo Park CA 94025
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> RE Henry Etzkowitz et al vs Elon Musk et al Case number 24CV450485 Superior Court of California County of California, Downtown Courthouse 191 Notth First Street, San Jose CA 95113 civil division
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>